Rob Murphy

March 29, 2024

Recent EntriesHomeJoin Fast Running Blog Community!PredictorHealthy RecipesRob Murphy's RacesFind BlogsMileage BoardTop Ten Excuses for Missing a RunTop Ten Training MistakesDiscussion ForumRace Reports Send A Private MessageWeek ViewMonth ViewYear View
JanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec
201020112012201320142015201620172018201920202021202220232024
15% off for Fast Running Blog members at St. George Running Center!

Location:

Salt Lake City,

Member Since:

Feb 11, 2010

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Other

Running Accomplishments:

I had some success in high school and college. Winner 1985 Rod Dixon Run 

Had a fair amount of success as a Masters runner for most of my 40s. 

Short-Term Running Goals:

Have fun with running, explore more trails, stay healthy.

Long-Term Running Goals:

Keep running and racing consistently for as long as I can. Find what is sustainable for me over the long run.

Personal:

I teach AP European History and other courses at Alta High School. I coached the track and cross country teams at Alta for 16 years.

Married, two kids - Abby and Andy

My Twitter  @murphy_rob

Click to donate
to Ukraine's Armed Forces
Miles:This week: 31.75 Month: 142.00 Year: 396.22
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
7.250.000.000.007.25

Easy run in the gully with Jake and Kramer.

Back to what I was wondering out loud about a couple days ago...

When I think back on my years coaching at Alta High, it occurs to me that the runners who have the greatest amount of success are the ones with the fewest options and the fewest conflicts. Many of the runners I have coached come from fairly wealthy families and with that wealth comes the opportunity for lots of fun. Lengthy vacations, the house boat at Lake Powell, the "cabin" in the mountains, the cruise to __________ - these things might be lots of fun but they almost always lead to a SLOW RUNNER.

It's also common for kids to be committed to too many activities. If you expect your kid to be an SBO, play an instrument, sing in the choir, try out for the school play, earn his Eagle Scout, attend every church camp, and drag hand carts around Wyoming, then you also have to expect that his progress as a runner might be impeded. 

"But if my son doesn't earn his Eagle, we will be forever stigmatized and we won't be able to show our faces in public for years"!

I would submit to you that running a sub 15 minute 5k and winning a state championship takes at least as much relentless dedication and sacrifice as earning an Eagle Scout award and that if it comes down to a choice between the two and your son wants to focus on running, you should respect that. Plus, he actually has to run the race and do the training himself. His mother can't do it for him. Running, if done the right way, can build more character than scouting.

Understand that I'm not saying that it always, or even usually, comes down to a choice between the two. But if it does...

It basically boils down to this. If you give a sixteen year old the choice between the cruise, the trip to Disneyland, the week at Lake Powell, or a week of hard cross country workouts, cross country is usually going to loose. On the other hand, if the kid doesn't have the first options to begin with, he just might win a state championship and a full scholarship.

Show me a kid that achieves great things in running and I'll show you a kid who sacrificed a lot of options or never had those options in the first place. 

My point is, kids can have too many options. 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00Weight: 0.00Calories: 0.00
Comments
From Bret on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:12:30 from 66.241.33.145

No comments about aches and pains -- perhaps improvement?

From Jake K on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:38:00 from 67.177.11.154

He was wearing all types of compression gear, Bret. Like a true hobby jogger!!! :-)

From Jake K on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:38:16 from 67.177.11.154

And for the record, I was too.

From Bret on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:42:34 from 66.241.33.145

LOL - Was any K-tape involved?

From Rob Murphy on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:12:51 from 24.10.249.165

Plus I got in 20 minutes of hot tub time while Jake ran 7 more with Kramer.

From SpencerSimpson on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 15:54:59 from 63.82.19.2

well said. and very funny truths. Options!

From Teena Marie on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 15:58:31 from 208.54.4.218

Seriously, why don't you have a column in the tribune? I would be a faithful reader. Always appreciate your thought provoking comments.

From Andy on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 16:40:32 from 76.27.65.244

While I do not completely disagree with you, the reality is there are very few kids that have a chance at a state championship or scholarship no matter how much they dedicate themselves. Some kids need to be exposed to multiple activities to find out what they have a true passion for. If you are stating that if you have one of these truly gifted athletes then you should encourage their development in that sport and not distract them with all of the other stuff just so they can be well rounded, then I completely agree. I also agree with your comment about kids having too many options. My kids only play one sport competetively because it is too overwhelming for them and me when they are involved in too many activities.

From Rob Murphy on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 17:10:54 from 24.10.249.165

Those are good points Andy.

What bothers me sometimes is that many kids don't seem to understand the concept of opportunity cost - the fact that an opportunity in one area of life might detract from success in another area.

The legendary Oregon coach, Bill Bowerman, used to constantly admonish his athletes to try to find some meaning in what they were doing as runners. But he would remind them that meaning could only be found if they pursued the sport in a particular way.

You are right to say that very few people will win a state championship no matter how hard they train. However, it's the work that must be done to win a state championship that lasts and is useful, not the actual hanging of the medal around your neck.

Every four years we have the Olympic Trials. Only the top three finishers in each event will go to the Olympics. Chances are, the athlete who finishes 4th, maybe missing out on an Olympic dream by hundredths of a second, sacrificed just as much and worked just as hard over the previous four years as the person who edged them out. Would anyone advise them afterwards that they should have taken a few more vacations, relaxed a little more, gone to a few of those parties they skipped?

It's the process that is instructive and provides us with meaning. The kid who commits himself 100% and comes up short gains just as much as the kid who wins the state championship.Maybe more in the long run.

From emruns on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 19:51:23 from 67.186.252.90

As the wife of a scoutmaster for the last six years, I would like to point out, that if the boys use their time wisely, they should finish their eagle before they hit high school. It is designed to be finished by the time they are 14.

I don't think that learning to maintain some sort of balance is a bad thing. I was a 10 x state champion, I sang in the audition choir, and had a 4.0 gpa. I probably sacrificed a little bit in terms of a social life, but I'm glad that I participated in several high school activities.

There are kids who focus solely on running, run tons of miles, win state championships, and then you never hear from them after high school because they are burnt out. I think learning a balance prepares them well for college, where they might be balancing school, track, and actually doing their own laundry. Some of the best and most well adjusted college and professional runners didn't focus only on their running in high school. It was part of a bigger picture.

That being said, it is definitely still important to make sure that all the training gets finished, and that good sleep and diet are priorities . . . especially during the season. I think you are right in that kids have too many opportunities, but isn't that better than the kids who have no opportunities at all?

From Jon on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 19:52:18 from 107.203.52.135

I didn't get my eagle scout. By the time I was 15-16, I was involved enough in sports (mainly running) that I didn't care. I regret it a bit, but still love running. I'd rather be real good at one thing than mediocre at many. To each their own, though.

In fact, I gave a presentation about ultrarunning to boy scouts. Two of my quotes: If you're going to do something, do your best. You can't do everything, so give your efforts to the things that matter the most to you.

From Rob Murphy on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 20:10:11 from 24.10.249.165

I can't argue with anything you are saying Emily and my son is involved in scouting as was I. I also will encourage my kids to be well rounded.

But I also hope that by their later high school years that they will have a passion for something that they work at above all other interests. I see a lot of kids that are what I call dabblers. They do everything with a slight bit of interest and then move on to the next activity. A little bit of obsession would do them good I think.

From Rob Murphy on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 20:16:45 from 24.10.249.165

I would add one more thing. I run into former students all the time who are doing things like working at Starbucks at 26 and living at home with their parents. Sometimes these were even 4.0 students who breezed through my AP class, were popular, and involved in lots of activities. I'll talk to them and they just seem aimless. I think it's because they failed to develop and nurture a passion.

From emruns on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 20:48:00 from 67.186.252.90

Good point. Focus on a passion is a great thing. I completely understand where you are coming from. I think that is what is missing from those who do burn out, is a lack of passion for what they are doing.

From Jake K on Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 21:17:21 from 67.177.11.154

Lots of good points here. Its another one of those things where there is a middle ground. I think being passionate about something is the best. Balance is also good - but "forced" balance (ie. parents forcing their kids to do a ton of stuff when they really would rather focus on 1-2 things) is bad.

I still consider myself a kid. I am very focused on / passionate about running, but I still enjoy doing some other stuff (hiking, skiing, etc). Those things sometimes (often) take a backseat to my running, and I'm OK w/ that. I think if I didn't channel my energies towards running the way I do, I wouldn't appreciate a lot of other things quite as much.

But that being said, when I was all about running 100% of the time, I sucked.

From Steve on Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 06:27:18 from 66.87.113.225

Rob I have a hard time even deciding where to start here. I loved your comment so much on finding meaning in running, and by that, life. It's all about the work. I'll seize anything that burns off the apathy and sense of entitlement that is everywhere you turn in our society. If you're comfortable, you're dying.

From Rob on Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 08:33:15 from 206.71.84.68

I was a dabbler!!

I wish I would have had someone help me focus my energy as a kid. It took me until I was 30 to find out I even knew how to run.

From Teena Marie on Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 09:31:50 from 65.130.8.28

So ... I can't stop thinking about this can you opened, Rob. So I had to look at some of the research out there.

Here is some food for thought:

Fransen et al. "Differences in physical fitness and gross motor corrdination in boys aged 6-12 years specializing in one versus sampling more than one sport" Journal of Sports Sciences. 30.4 (2012): 379-386.

Results: 735 boys participated in study. In boys between the ages of 10-12 it was found that the boys who were more diversifies (sampled many sports) did better on standing broad jump and gross motor coordiination than boys specializing in a single sport.

_________

Bridge, Matthew W., and Martin R. Toms. "The specialising or sampling debate: a retrospective analysis of adolescent sports participation in the UK." Journal of Sports Sciences 31.1 (2013): 87-96.

Results: A significant association between the number of sports participated in at the ages of 11, 13, and 15

and the standard of competition between 16 and 18 years was found. Individuals who competed in three sports aged 11, 13, and 15 were significantly more likely to compete at a national compared with club standard between the ages of 16 and 18 than those who practiced only one sport.

__________________

CôTé, J. E. A. N., Ronnie Lidor, and Dieter Hackfort. "ISSP position stand: To sample or to specialize? Seven postulates about youth sport activities that lead to continued participation and elite performance." International Journal of Sport and Exercise Psychology 7.1 (2009): 7-17.

Conclusion: It appears that the current trends in sport programming are characterized by institutionalization, elitism, early selection, and early specialization (Hecimovich, 2004; De Knop,

Engström, & Skirstad, 1996; Hill, 1988; Hill & Hansen, 1988). Many sport programs

are requiring higher levels of investment from earlier ages and are discouraging children from participating in a diversity of activities (Ewing & Seefeldt, 1996; Hecimovich,

2004; Gould & Carson, 2004; Hill, 1988; Hill & Hansen, 1988). However, there seems

to be clear evidence suggesting that sport programs such as these may not be providing

an optimal environment for youths’ lifelong involvement in sport or even for future success

in elite participation (Côté et al., 2007; Guellich, Emrich, & Prohl, 2004).

_________________

I could go on and on and on. :) Most all of the research I looked at agreed that there just isn't enough evidence out there and that there is just too much variability to come up with a "one size fits all" rule. :)

With that said, what I have learned from all of this is that I really want my kids to sample sample sample while they are young. Then, as they reach adolescence when they really start to discover who they are and what they love then perhaps specializing is the way to go if they have collegiate dreams or higher in that specific sport.

I find it interesting that all five of my children are so different. My oldest, who will be sixteen in a handful of weeks, was very diverse until about 2 years ago when she really began to work primarily on basketball. We have been advised to already have a sports resume on hand whenever she attends any basketball tournaments. She is working on getting a scholarship at a division 2 or 3 school and has been told that she should needs to have a collegiate plan in play (and offers) by the time she is junior in high school. That sounds crazy to me, but apparently that is the track that some of these kids have to be on if they want to play college sports.

With that said, I have been told that only 2% of athletes get a full ride "athletic" scholarship. That means the VAST MAJORITY have to have additional means. In other words, I do not believe that academics should ever suffer on account of sports. BUT ... it seems to me that they often go hand in hand. The focus you use in sports is definitely transferable to academics and vice-versa.

Anyway, it looks like I have written an epistle here. Sorry, All. Peace. :)

From Rob Murphy on Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:08:40 from 24.10.249.165

Why are you introducing actual facts to this discussion Teena?

i've been pondering what I wrote. I'm not arguing that kids should specialize in one sport - especially at a young age.

What I'm mostly thinking about is leisure and vacation time. I'll write more on it today.

From steve ash on Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:28:42 from 174.52.100.252

I get where your going Rob. I agree pretty much with what your saying, some kids are definitely over involved with too many pursuits at the expense of developing mastery in others. However balance is good also and especially at a young age.. That is why when my son approaches us with an interest in getting involved with another activity we carefully go over the pros and cons of it and how it could affect other interests and areas in their life. Ultimately I think it comes down to common sense in determining what will benefit and help them grow as individuals and not overload and frustrate them.

From je10 on Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 14:15:26 from 67.166.71.216

quite the can of worms. interested in your future notes on leisure/vacation.

From Bill on Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 17:47:42 from 71.37.99.249

Boy I want to put in my two cents worth but I will just sit out for now.

From Ashton Arndt on Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 22:21:53 from 65.130.187.156

Hey coach is it ok if I miss practice Thursday? I need to work on my eagle project. Oh and I'm also going to lake Powell next week. Oh oh and my "cabin" the week after that! Sounds like fun right!?

Or how about lifting a 20 pound State Trophy in the air, that in the moment feels like 50 because we left every once of energy on the course? I want to be on that podium come October looking down at AF, Davis, Bingham, Riverton, Herriman, and 9 other teams only dreaming of the glory we will receive from pushing ourselves past our limits off day in and day out this Season. You have my word I will minimize ditractions and I have already made running my no.1 priority.

By the way, I have my Eagle done. :)

Add Your Comment.
  • Keep it family-safe. No vulgar or profane language. To discourage anonymous comments of cowardly nature, your IP address will be logged and posted next to your comment.
  • Do not respond to another person's comment out of context. If he made the original comment on another page/blog entry, go to that entry and respond there.
  • If all you want to do is contact the blogger and your comment is not connected with this entry and has no relevance to others, send a private message instead.
Only registered users with public blogs are allowed to post comments. Log in with your username and password or create an account and set up a blog.
Debt Reduction Calculator
Featured Announcements
Lone Faithfuls
(need a comment):
Recent Comments: